Minutes of the 3rd December 2020 Teleconference Austin-1085 Page 1 of 1 Submitted by Andrew Josey, The Open Group. 5th December 2020 Attendees: Nick Stoughton, USENIX, ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 22 OR (late joining due to WG14 meeting in progress) Joerg Schilling, FOKUS Fraunhofer Mark Ziegast, SHware Systems Dev. Don Cragun, IEEE PASC OR Andrew Josey, The Open Group Eric Blake, Red Hat, The Open Group OR Geoff Clare, The Open Group Richard Hansen Apologies: Tom Thompson, IEEE Eric Ackermann * General news None. * Outstanding actions (Please note that this section has been flushed to shorten the minutes - to locate the previous set of outstanding actions, look to the minutes from 13th June 2019 and earlier) Bug 1254: "asynchronous list" description uses "command" instead of "AND-OR list" OPEN https://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=1254 Action: Joerg to investigate how his shell behaves. Bug 700 - Nick to raise this issue with the C committee Bug 713 - Nick to raise with the C committee. Bug 739 - Nick to raise with the C committee. * Current Business Bug 1345: date(1) default format Accept as Marked https://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=1345 This item is tagged for TC3-2008. The POSIX locale default date utility format: %a %b %e %H:%M:%S %Z %Y contains two pieces of information beyond the minimum of date and time required for other locales: the day name (%a) and the time zone (%Z). Most implementations include these in the default date output for their implementation-provided locales. Since many users would expect to see day name and time zone information in the default date output (particularly if they are used to the traditional behaviour that was standardised for the POSIX locale), as a minimum we should add something to APPLICATION USAGE about this. We should also consider recommending that implementations include them (either via "should" in normative text or a statement in RATIONALE). Here is a suggested set of changes that does the latter... On page 2638 line 85823 section date, add a paragraph to APPLICATION USAGE: Since the default date utility format for locales other than the POSIX or C locale is not required to include anything beyond the date and time, whereas for the POSIX or C locale it also includes the day name and time zone, it may be necessary to specify a format (or override the locale-selection environment variables) to ensure this information is included when desired. On page 2640 line 85914 section date, add these paragraphs to RATIONALE: Although this standard only requires the default date utility format, for locales other than the POSIX or C locale, to include the date and time, it is common for implementations to include day name and time zone information as well. (For the POSIX locale this is required, with the day name in %a format at the beginning and the time zone in %Z format before the year.) Implementations are encouraged to include the day name (in %a or %A format) and the time zone (in %Z or %z format) in the default date utility format for all of the locales they provide. Some implementations have a date_fmt locale keyword (see [xref to XBD 7.3.5]) as an extension, to specify the default date utility format for each locale. On such implementations, if the localedef utility is used to create a locale that does not have this information, the date utility must by default still produce output for that locale that includes both the time and the date. Bug 1346: Require support for CLOCK_MONOTONIC Accept as Marked https://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=1346 This item is tagged for Issue 8. All page and line numbers are against Issue 7 2018 edition (C181). Delete page 8 lines 235-240 (XBD 1.7.1 Codes, MON) and remove the MON shading throughout: page 426 lines 14470-14474 (XBD ) page 511 lines 17861-17865 (XSH 2.8.5 Clocks and Timers) page 512 line 17872 (XSH 2.8.5 Clocks and Timers) page 590 lines 20564-20565 (XSH aio_suspend() description) page 680 line 23320 (XSH clock_getres() errors) On page 18 line 586 (XBD 2.1.3 POSIX Conformance), move _POSIX_MONOTONIC_CLOCK to a new list of symbolic constants for Issue 8 under page 17 line 552. Delete page 23 line 818 and page 24 line 826. On page 275 line 9235 () change: If the Monotonic Clock option is supported, the ... to: The ... and remove the [MON] shading. On page 436 lines 14851 - 14854, change _POSIX_MONOTONIC_CLOCK The implementation supports the Monotonic Clock option. If this symbol is defined in , it shall be defined to be −1, 0, or 200809L. The value of this symbol reported by sysconf( ) shall either be −1 or 200809L. to _POSIX_MONOTONIC_CLOCK The implementation supports a monotonic clock. This symbol shall always be set to the value 20yymmL. and remove the [MON] shading. On page 679 line 23272 (XSH clock_getres() description), change: If the Monotonic Clock option is supported, all ... to: All ... and remove the [MON] shading. On page 1986 lines 63922-63923 (XSH sigtimedwait() ) change: If the Monotonic Clock option is supported, the ... to: The ... and remove the [MON] shading. On page 2151 lines 68909-68910 change: All implementations shall support a clock_id of CLOCK_REALTIME. If the Monotonic Clock option is supported, implementations shall support a clock_id of CLOCK_MONOTONIC. to: All implementations shall support CLOCK_REALTIME and CLOCK_MONOTONIC as values for clock_id. and remove the [MON] shading. On page 3485 line 117753 section A.2.1.3 change: The following options from the previous version of this standard are now mandatory to: The following options from previous versions of this standard are now mandatory and add _POSIX_MONOTONIC_CLOCK to the list following that text. On page 3779 line 129738 section D.3.4, change: The system supports the Monotonic Clock option. This option ... to: Support for a monotonic clock is mandatory in POSIX.1-202x. This facility ... Gettext draft. We will return to this on a future call. The gettext draft in the etherpad is at https://posix.rhansen.org/p/gettext_draft https://posix.rhansen.org/p/gettext_split Next Steps ---------- The next calls are on: December 7th 2020 (Monday) This call will be for 60 minutes. December 10th 2020 (Thursday) This call will be for 90 minutes. Apologies in advance: Eric Ackermann, Thu 2020-12-10 Tom Thompson (rest of December). Calls are anchored on US time. (8am Pacific) Please check the calendar invites for dial in details. Bugs are at: https://austingroupbugs.net An etherpad is usually up for the meeting, with a URL using the date format as below: https://posix.rhansen.org/p/20xx-mm-dd (For write access this uses The Open Group single sign on, for those individuals with gitlab.opengroup.org accounts. Please contact Andrew if you need to be setup)