Minutes of the 10th October 2013 Teleconference Austin-630 Page 1 of 1 Submitted by Andrew Josey, The Open Group. 11th October 2013 Attendees Don Cragun, PASC OR Geoff Clare, The Open Group Eric Blake, Red Hat Andrew Josey, The Open Group Mark Brown David Clissold, IBM Richard Hansen, BBN Joerg Schilling, Fraunhofer Society Apologies Nick Stoughton, USENIX, ISO/IEC OR Mark Ziegast * General news Andrew has an action to check with Nick on whether the current meeting slot is still convenient. Also he needs to chase up the status of the replacement OR for The Open Group. * Outstanding actions +Bug 0000251: Forbid newline, or even bytes 1 through 31 (inclusive), in filenames OPEN http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=251 Don has an action to produce a proposal. +Bug 0000561: NUL-termination of sun_path in Unix sockets OPEN http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=561 Eric has an action to update the proposal. +Bug 0000573: Please add '+' to the portable filename character set OPEN http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=573 Joerg has an action to prepare a proposed change. +Bug 0000592: consistent use of struct timespec OPEN http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=592 Jim had provided additional information in bugnote 1627. This was discussed and Jim took an action to provide further information. +Bug 0000598: OH shading and new interfaces OPEN http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=598 Eric has an action to propose a new solution with self-contained headers. +Bug 0000517: EBNF support OPEN http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=517 Action on Joerg to look at this. +Bug 0000633: SIGEV_THREAD delivery renders many signal interfaces unsafe OPEN http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=633 We noted that feedback has settled down on the mailing list, and will discuss next session. +Bug 0000657: Conditions under which fmemopen() write a NUL to the buffer are insufficiently specified OPEN http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=657 Eric has an action to propose wording to clarify the behavior for fmemopen(), and also to contact the glibc developers to get their feedback. +Bug 0000658: Undefined/unspecified behavior clauses in description of open have race conditions OPEN http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=658 It was noted that there is some overlap with changes in TC1. Eric took an action to update the proposal to resolve the overlaps appropriately. +Bug 0000615: pthread_setcancelstate should be async-signal-safe OPEN http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=615 We now have reports on AIX and Apple. Jim to report back on whether pthread_cancelstate() is async-signal-safe on Solaris. Andrew to ask HP whether pthread_cancelstate() is async-signal-safe on HP-UX. +Bug 622 left open pending resolution of 615. http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=622 +Bug 0000672: Necessary step(s) to synchronize filename operations on disk OPEN http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=672 Geoff has a new proposed resolution in note 1618. Decided to solicit input from FS developers. Eric to go to Linux, David to AIX and Jim to Solaris. Jim has completed his action (see bugnote 1691). Andrew should chase HP and Apple for input. +Bug 0000663: Specification of str[n]casecmp is ambiguous reopened http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=663 Action on David to follow up with the IBM developers about the EBCDIC collation sequence. Bug 696 either NAME_MAX shouldn't be optional, or readdir_r() needs clarification http://www.austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=696 Don has an action to propose a resolution. Bug 0000721: Internal storage vs static storage OPEN http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=721 This item is still open. * Current Business Mailing list items We discussed Glenn Golden's email (sequence 19937 http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.standards.posix.austin.general/8259 ) - it was agreed that we will wait for an actual bug to be filed, but the initial view is that: if an intermediate application documents an argument as a string, but then passes it to grep as a regular expression, the intermediate app must sanitize it into a regular expression if an intermediate app documents an argument as a BRE, then passes it to grep, the intermediate app does not have to sanitize the argument to reject extension expressions the caller is responsible for passing conforming arguments for the intermediate app to remain conforming; rejecting extensions is at odd with leaving undefined behavior to allow for extensions Bug 0000375: Extend test/[...] conditionals: ==, <, >, -nt, -ot, -ef OPEN http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=375 This item is related to list discussion on 4-argument test (mail We had received input from David Korn on this item ---quote - reply from DGK Overall, I like the proposal except for the alternative proposal to add < and > to test and [...]. While you clearly state that < and > need to be quoted, if you do [ b < a ] && echo yes You may not get an error message and most likely it will not do what you expect. This is equivalent to [ b ] < a && echo yes which is not what most users would expect. I don't seen the point of adding something confusing since [[...]] is widely used and does not have this problem since < and > are part of the grammer. I don't see the point of making [[ string ]] and [[ ! string ]] optional since they are not optional with [...]. In the description of [[...]] make clear that ! is a reserved word and that (, ), < >, &&, and || are operators. You have the line %token Lbrace Rbrace Bang Ldbracket Rdbracket Lbrace and Rbrace do not belong since they are not use in [[...]]. ( and ) are used for grouping. You should make a list of the required UNARY_WORD values. Maybe implementations can extend but the values should start with -. You need to add that UNARY_WORD and DB_BINARY_WORD and not expanded. They must match one of the list that is standard (or implementation extended). However, WORD is expanded except that file expansion and work splitting are not done. ---end quote-- Andrew to ask David he could provide guidance on how to merge his comments into the proposal - that is the explicit wording to add double brackets to the standard. The current proposal is at: http://austingroupbugs.net/file_download.php?file_id=15&type=bug In addition, ask him whether he thinks adding a feature to [[ ]] (and test) based on the GNU find "-newerXY" primary (in addition to -nt and -ot) would be worthwhile - i.e. is it something he would consider adding to ksh? The X and Y specify which timestamps to compare. For example [[ file1 -neweram file2 ]] would compare the atime of file1 with the mtime of file2. The syntax is: -newerXY file The primary evaluates as true if the time refered to by X of the current file is more recent than the time refered to by Y of the file named by the pathname file. The time type indicators X and Y may be one of: a The last access time (st_atime) c the last inode change time (st_ctime) m the modification time (st_mtime) The primary -newermm is equivalent to -newer. The expression -neweram path evaluates as true if the last read access time of the current file is more recent than the time of the last modification of path. in test context, this could be e.g. [ file1 -neweram file2 ] Bug 000754: total ordering in qsort is unclear Rejected http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=574 As noted in Note: 0001839 and Note: 0001841, the text in POSIX does come from the C Standard and was not invented by the developers of the POSIX standards, and the statement that compar() is a binary function not giving a total ordering is incorrect. The compar(a,b) function is defined to provide a tertiary response (less than 0 if a is less than b; 0 if they are equal, and greater than 0 if a is greater than b). For these reasons, this change is rejected. Bug 0000756: parentheses mismatch Accepted http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=576 This item is tagged for TC2-2008 Bug 0000758: typo in interface name Accepted http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=578 This item is tagged for TC2-2008 Bug 0000755: reused thread id and mutex ownership OPEN http://www.austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=755 The view is that the reporter is correct: he does have the correct interpretation of the standard We reached consensus that the standard is clear and existing implementations do not conform, but we ran out of time to update the bug. Don took an action to draft an interpretation response using the "unambiguous case" template. Next Steps ---------- The next call is on October 17, 2013 (a Thursday) We will pick up on bug 755 Calls are anchored on US time. This call will be for the regular 90 minutes. http://austingroupbugs.net An IRC channel will be available for the meeting irc://irc.freenode.net/austingroupbugs We are now using an Etherpad for note taking - the URL is given at the start of the meeting in IRC