Minutes of the 8th July 2021 Teleconference     Austin-1142 Page 1 of 1
Submitted by Andrew Josey, The Open Group. 9th July 2021

Attendees:
    Nick Stoughton, USENIX, ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 22 OR
    Joerg Schilling
    Don Cragun, IEEE PASC OR
    Andrew Josey, The Open Group
    Geoff Clare, The Open Group
    Eric Ackermann, HPI, University of Potsdam
    Eric Blake, Red Hat, The Open Group OR
    Richard Hansen
    Tom Thompson
 
Apologies:
    Mark Ziegast, SHware Systems Dev.

* General news 

This was a call dedicated to Issue 8 D2 bugs.
We discussed alternative dialin arrangements while Nick is out on vacation.
IEEE are able to provide a webex. Andrew also has a webex account
and will followup with the core team about testing that.
It would cover three meetings, Jul 22, Jul 26 and Jul 29.


* Outstanding actions

(Please note that this section has been flushed to shorten the minutes -
to locate the previous set of outstanding actions, look to the minutes
from 13th June 2019 and earlier)

Bug 1254: "asynchronous list" description uses "command" instead of "AND-OR list" OPEN
https://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=1254
Action: Joerg to investigate how his shell behaves.

Bug 713 - Nick to raise with the C committee.
This item raised in Austin/1129 and submitted to the C committee in May 2021.


* Current Business

Bug 1486: Are parentheticals normative or informative? Withdrawn
https://www.austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=1486

See bugnote 5391:
Response from Tom Thompson at IEEE when asked whether there is an
existing rule about parentheticals being informative:

    I am not sure of the "rule" they refer to. IEEE SA does not
    consider items in parenthesis as informative.

    The only items we automatically consider informative in standards
    are the introduction, NOTES (in tables, figures, and text)
    Footnotes to text....Please note Footnotes in Tables and Figures
    are considered Normative, and Annexes clearly marked informative.
    With all of that being said (text in parentheses by default is
    not considered informative).

    I hope this helps clarify how IEEE SA sees informative versus
    normative references/ clauses.

During the 2021-07-01 telecon, we decided that from now on we will
treat parentheticals as normative (unless inside text that is already
informative). There are existing parentheticals that are intended
to be normative (examples: Issue 8 draft 2 page 30 line 1039, and
page 486 line 17120), so explicitly stating that parentheticals are
informative would have unintended side effects. There may also be
existing parentheticals that are intended to be informative and
conflict with the normative text; such cases will be fixed as they
are brought to the Austin Group's attention.

Bug 1487: rm -v addition needs an extra change in EXIT STATUS Accepted
https://www.austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=1487

This item is marked with an Issue 8 tag

Bug 1466: Pseudo-terminal devices should be renamed Accepted as marked
https://www.austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=1466

This item is marked with an Issue 8 tag

Change "master" to "manager" and "slave" to "subsidiary" in all of the places listed in the desired action. 

Bug 1471: Add an orthogonal interface for immediate macro expansion definitions to make OPEN
https://www.austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=1471

We started and will continue this item on the next Thursday call

The next call will be a gettext call.
The gettext draft in the etherpad is at

https://posix.rhansen.org/p/gettext_draft
https://posix.rhansen.org/p/gettext_split

The next D2 bugs call will be July 1st.


Next Steps 
----------
The next calls are on:

July 12 2021 (Monday)  Gettext
This call will be for 90 minutes.

July 15 2021 (Thursday)   General Bugs (D2 bugs)
This call will be for 90 minutes.

Calls are anchored on US time. (8am Pacific) 

Apologies in advance:
Eric Blake 2021-07-22
Nick Stoughton 2021-07-22, 2021-07-26, 2021-07-29

Please check the calendar invites for dial in details.

Bugs are at:
https://austingroupbugs.net

An etherpad is usually up for the meeting, with a URL using the date format as below:

https://posix.rhansen.org/p/20xx-mm-dd

(For write access this uses The Open Group single sign on,
for those individuals with gitlab.opengroup.org accounts.
Please contact Andrew if you need to be setup)