Minutes of the 7 November 2013 Teleconference Austin-633 Page 1 of 1 Submitted by Andrew Josey, The Open Group. 8th November 2013 Attendees Richard Hansen, BBN (2nd half) Don Cragun, PASC OR Eric Blake, Red Hat Joerg Schilling, Fraunhofer Society Mark Ziegast David Clissold, IBM Martin Rehak, Oracle (2nd half) Nick Stoughton, USENIX, ISO/IEC OR Geoff Clare, The Open Group Mark Brown Apologies Andrew Josey, The Open Group * General news Andrew still needs to chase up the status of the replacement OR for The Open Group (he has sent a mail to the Base WG calling for the replacment). * Outstanding actions +Bug 0000251: Forbid newline, or even bytes 1 through 31 (inclusive), in filenames OPEN http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=251 Don has an action to produce a proposal. +Bug 0000561: NUL-termination of sun_path in Unix sockets OPEN http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=561 Eric has an action to update the proposal. +Bug 0000573: Please add '+' to the portable filename character set OPEN http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=573 Joerg has an action to prepare a proposed change. +Bug 0000592: consistent use of struct timespec OPEN http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=592 Jim had provided additional information in bugnote 1627. This was discussed and Jim took an action to provide further information. +Bug 0000598: OH shading and new interfaces OPEN http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=598 Eric has an action to propose a new solution with self-contained headers. +Bug 0000517: EBNF support OPEN http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=517 Action on Joerg to look at this. +Bug 0000633: SIGEV_THREAD delivery renders many signal interfaces unsafe OPEN http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=633 We noted that feedback has settled down on the mailing list, and will discuss next session. +Bug 0000657: Conditions under which fmemopen() write a NUL to the buffer are insufficiently specified OPEN http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=657 Eric has an action to propose wording to clarify the behavior for fmemopen(), and also to contact the glibc developers to get their feedback. +Bug 0000658: Undefined/unspecified behavior clauses in description of open have race conditions OPEN http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=658 It was noted that there is some overlap with changes in TC1. Eric took an action to update the proposal to resolve the overlaps appropriately. +Bug 0000615: pthread_setcancelstate should be async-signal-safe OPEN http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=615 We now have reports on AIX and Apple. Jim to report back on whether pthread_cancelstate() is async-signal-safe on Solaris. Andrew to ask HP whether pthread_cancelstate() is async-signal-safe on HP-UX. +Bug 622 left open pending resolution of 615. http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=622 +Bug 0000672: Necessary step(s) to synchronize filename operations on disk OPEN http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=672 Geoff has a new proposed resolution in note 1618. Decided to solicit input from FS developers. Eric to go to Linux, David to AIX and Jim to Solaris. Jim has completed his action (see bugnote 1691). Andrew should chase HP and Apple for input. +Bug 0000663: Specification of str[n]casecmp is ambiguous reopened http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=663 Action on David to follow up with the IBM developers about the EBCDIC collation sequence. Bug 696 either NAME_MAX shouldn't be optional, or readdir_r() needs clarification http://www.austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=696 Don has an action to propose a resolution. Bug 0000721: Internal storage vs static storage OPEN http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=721 This item is still open. * Current Business Bug 0000763: If rule has no prerequisites or commands, and target is non-existent, imagine it's been updated Accepted as Marked http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=763 This item is tagged for TC2-2008 This issue was reopened and discussed during the November 7, 2013 conference call. This note has been updated to address the changed resolution. The standard was already clear on the requirements, but a note is being added to the application usage to serve as a hint for people who might have missed the normative requirement: Add to the end of the APPLICATION USAGE (p2922 L96124, or in the 2013 edition P2948 L97603): As a consequence of the general rules for target updating, a useful special case is that if a target has no prerequisites and no commands, and the target of the rule is a nonexistent file, then make acts as if this target has been updated whenever its rule is run. (Note: This implies that all targets depending on this one will always have their commands run.) Bug 0000765: kill and pthread_kill behavior between termination and lifetime end Accepted as Marked http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=765 This item is tagged for TC2-2008 At page 1213 line 40379 section kill() change: Existing implementations vary on the result of a kill( ) with pid indicating an inactive process (a terminated process that has not been waited for by its parent). Some indicate success on such a call (subject to permission checking), while others give an error of [ESRCH]. Since the definition of process lifetime in this volume of POSIX.1-2008 covers inactive processes, the [ESRCH] error as described is inappropriate in this case. In particular, this means that an application cannot have a parent process check for termination of a particular child with kill( ). (Usually this is done with the null signal; this can be done reliably with waitpid().) to: Historical implementations varied on the result of a kill() with pid indicating a zombie process. Some indicated success on such a call (subject to permission checking), while others gave an error of [ESRCH]. Since the definition of process lifetime in this standard covers zombie processes, the [ESRCH] error as described is inappropriate in this case and implementations that give this error do not conform. This means that an application cannot have a parent process check for termination of a particular child by sending it the null signal with kill(), but must instead use waitpid() or waitid(). At line 53174 page 1640 [XSH pthread_kill RATIONALE], add a paragraph: Existing implementations vary on the result of a pthread_kill( ) with thread id indicating an inactive thread (a terminated thread that has not been detached or joined). Some indicate success on such a call, while others give an error of [ESRCH]. Since the definition of thread lifetime in this volume of POSIX.1-2008 covers inactive threads, the [ESRCH] error as described is inappropriate in this case. In particular, this means that an application cannot have one thread check for termination of another with pthread_kill( ). At line 53176 page 1640 [XSH pthread_kill FUTURE DIRECTIONS], change: None. to: A future version of this standard may require that pthread_kill() not fail with ESRCH in the case of sending signals to an inactive thread (a terminated thread not yet detached or joined), even though no signal will be delivered because the thread is no longer running. Bug 0000766: Add VPATH to make Rejected http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=766 Due to lack of consensus on the part of implementers on the particulars of how VPATH works, this change is rejected. If the developers of various versions of make agree on a new feature that will be implemented in all versions of make, we will certainly consider a proposal to standardize that new feature. Bug 0000785: Left-over text about signal() in a multi-threaded process Accepted http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=785 This item is tagged for TC2-2008 Bug 0000780: missing CX shadings in the reserved identifiers table Accepted as Marked http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=780 This item is tagged for TC2-2008 Page 475 L16099-16100 signal.h (shade CX) Page 476 L16133-16135 time.h (shade CX) Page 476 L16137 utime.h (shade OB) Page 476 L16143 ANY header (shade CX) * related to Bug 765 Action on Eric to file a new Issue 8 bug to implement the pthread_kill() FUTURE DIRECTIONS from bug 765, to include a definition of "Thread Lifetime" and possibly one for "Zombie Thread" if he can find a place to use it in normative text. Next Steps ---------- The next call is on November 14, 2013 (a Thursday) Calls are anchored on US time. (8am Pacific) This call will be for the regular 90 minutes. http://austingroupbugs.net An IRC channel will be available for the meeting irc://irc.freenode.net/austingroupbugs An etherpad is usually up for the meeting, with a URL using the date format as below: http://posix@posix.rhansen.org:9001/p/201x-mm-dd password=2115756#